If you’re an astronomer you depend on accurate observations of stars, but there’s a problem. Stars are sneaky! Changing in size, brightness, color, they hide their chemistry, their age and even their companions from all but the cleverest observers. Stars explode precisely when they intend to. Betelgeuse took a brightness plunge, T CrB refused to go nova, and other failures to be predictable irk observers for good reasons. Let’s talk about it.
Show Notes
- Missing Nova – T CrB (T Coronae Borealis)
- Astronomical Surveys and Monitoring
- Challenges in Star Observation
- Eclipsing and Binary Stars
Transcript
Human transcription provided by GMR Transcription
AstroCast-20250120.mp3
Fraser Cane [00:00:49] Astronomy Cast Episode 740 Sneaky Stars. Welcome to join me cast our weekly fact based Enduring Through the Cosmos, where we help you understand not only what we know, but how we know what we know. I’m Fraser Cane. I’m the publisher of Universe Today. With me, as always, is Dr. Pamela Gay, a senior scientist for the Planetary Science Institute and the director of Cosmic Quest. How are you doing?
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:01:09] I am doing well. I am deeply amused that the title I came up with was Why You Can’t Trust Stars. And You’re just like Sneaky Stars. I love the change that occurred between the two of us.
Fraser Cane [00:01:27] Yeah. Yeah. You should see the list of proposed titles that I gave to Pamela for upcoming episodes.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:01:33] I look forward to it. We are in the process.
Fraser Cane [00:01:36] Titled Disruption Events. Technosignatures. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Very straightforward title panels along with the complicated ones. So. But in this case, I overrode your title with mine, so I bet I figured to be. You’d be cool with that. Yeah. If you were an astronomer, you depend on accurate observations of stars. But there’s a problem. Stars are sneaky, changing in size, brightness, color. They hide their chemistry, their age, and even their companions from all but the cleverest observers. Stars explode precisely when they intend to. We’ll talk about it a second, but it’s time for a break.
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Fraser Cane [00:03:30] And we’re back. All right. So you had originally pitched this episode because we wanted to talk a bit about the missing Nova.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:03:39] Yes. Yes. T Crown Borealis, Ticker Bar.
Fraser Cane [00:03:43] Ticker Kerbau. Let’s go ahead and use that. That’s awesome.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:03:46] Yeah. Because. Yeah, it’s fun to say. Yeah. So, like, the beginning of last summer, we were, like, things to look forward to. First episode of the season, and we were like, Yeah, it didn’t go. Hopefully it’ll go soon. It is now a new year, a new season. As far as we know, there is no nova. And and so this comes with the caveat of stars are insert expletive here and they’re not going to do what you want them to. We always talk about how pulsars are such solid clocks that they are more accurate than atomic clocks. And then they go and hiccup and glitch. Right. And pulsating variable stars change in period. And and there’s all these things going on that always remind me that Keats was a super weird individual because he wrote that he wanted a love as constant as the stars. And stars are not constant people.
Fraser Cane [00:04:59] Yeah, mostly you can count on pulsars mostly. So. So let’s go back to Tinker Bor. And so, you know, we were all sort of expecting this Stars Nova to happen sometime, really, last summer. Yeah. And so here we are six months later, and this star has had a nova has had regular outbursts on a schedule for multiple observations and we are now behind schedule. And so I guess the question is, you know, are we behind schedule in a normal amount of behind schedule or are we behind schedule in a way that it’s like. That’s interesting because that’s it. Eventually it switches from, you know, yeah, the star to this Nova can appear any time to it’s now a little weird that this Nova has appeared and that starts to mean new science.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:05:57] So so here’s the thing. We we have only had digital detectors capable of high resolution monitoring of stellar brightness. We have only had the ability to photometric only determine anything for about 100 years, digitally for about 30 years. And and so we’re still figuring out what’s weird for these things. What we know is historically, this sucker has gotten bright fairly regularly. But we we only have a few hundred years data for any given star’s periodicity. So we don’t know how long these stars typically behave. And what’s amazing is we are in this new era of photoelectric monitoring of the sky, and we are in this new era of having 100 or more years of data of what stars do and don’t vary or go nova. And so we get to figure out what is normal. So. So while this object was first noticed to brighten in a way that’s pretty believable back in the early 1200s, we’ve we’ve only been regularly following it. For a few cycles and it could very well be that it glitches like this regularly. Or it could be that it’s in the process of transitioning because objects like T Crown or Borealis are eating a material off of a companion star. And that companion star is both undergoing evolution in its core due to normal thermonuclear reactions. And it is undergoing evolution because its atmosphere is getting eaten by its companion. And we don’t know if that companion star is just hitting the point where it has changed just enough that it isn’t providing the regular care and feeding of that little white dwarf that it has provided in the past. And without that regular care and feeding, apparently to Corboy is just not going to Nova for us. It’s just not going to do it.
Fraser Cane [00:08:38] So, I mean, you could end up with variations in the amount of material that’s being transferred from the the star. Yeah. And that would, that would you because then it’s just the flow rate like. Right. How much material is is flowing over. But if the flow rate has gone if it has been roughly predictable for many cycles and now that flow rate has decreased, what could account for that?
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:09:05] Well, simply put, if it ain’t so much off that it’s no longer filling its Roche lobe the same way. Basically it’s the problem of at a certain point, a container that has been draining steadily through a pinhole is going to have a less steady flow as the level gets too low. So we could be dealing with with there’s just not enough stuff there. Or it could be that it’s at a point in its evolution where it has begun to contract down because there’s not enough radiation pressure pushing outwards on that atmosphere and either reducing in size due to a change in radiation pressure or reducing in size because not enough stuff are both valid answers.
Fraser Cane [00:10:00] And I think people would be quite surprised to find out that, in fact, astronomers aren’t watching all the stars all the time. They don’t know immediately when something happens. That’s why there’s this whole realm of amateur astronomers who find supernova because they’re the ones who are going out every night using their telescope, looking at all the galaxies that they know of and have memorized by heart to know what they look like to spot when a new supernova appears in one of them. And and, you know, and these don’t exist. I mean, there are a couple of transient surveys that are, you know, there’s Zwicky and there’s a couple of others. And of course, the the sort of the the mother of.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:10:40] All the time.
Fraser Cane [00:10:41] Based surveys is coming with with Vera Rubin. So whenever one comes online, then you will have every couple of nights you’re going to have this this very detailed view of every single object in the southern hemisphere night sky. And that’s going to tell you the moment a nova appears. And I guess then we will finally, for the first time in human history, have this watchful eye on the entire sky. But I don’t think people realize that this is just never happened. You know, if you like, how come you didn’t notice that there’s no. That had gone off a week ago? We’re like, nobody was watching that star.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:11:19] And this is where they with the American association variable star observers they have for over 100 years had volunteers around the world with a definite wealth of observers in North America and a lack of observers in the Southern hemisphere. They’ve been out there doing their best to monitor what they can, but they aren’t sensitive to faint objects. You can only notice so many things. And a lot of these folks are picking individual stars that this is my star, I shall observe. And they may not have picked this star. So. So, yeah, there’s lots of stars out there that are going to be going nova that just we don’t have enough good data on them to know what’s normal and what’s not.
Fraser Cane [00:12:12] And especially if the Nova isn’t, you know, if the star is far away and if the Nova isn’t extreme, then it’s not going to be this thing where suddenly the star appears in the sky. What it’s going to be is this. This previously invisible star reaches 15th magnitude briefly. And that’s only visible in this sort of time domain astronomy like Vera Rubin. So, so and this is why I’m like, so excited about this telescope is that all of these objects were going off unnoticed. And then and again, we only have this relatively short period of time that we’ve been observing this nova only a few cycles. Maybe they’re not as regular as we thought they were. I mean, there’s only like ten known regular period Nova like tech or where you can kind of set your watch to them. And well, we know how many cycles that that goes. All right. We’re going to talk about some other sneaky stars, but it’s time for another break.
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Fraser Cane [00:14:31] And we’re back. All right. So now I’m not sure if you were sort of ready to think about this, but I’d like to talk a bit about builders as a sneaky star.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:14:41] So Maya, variables, red giants, all of these end of life thing. Massive stars are in the process of puffing out their outer atmosphere. I we see this kind of behavior much more readily in smaller stars that when they become Planetary Nebula, we get to see all that detail from the apex of puffing out atmosphere. But supernovae. If if we could see the same details without the shockwave of the explosion destroying them. They also have these puffed out layers of atmosphere. And so in the process of of losing track of their outer atmosphere there, they’re kind of breathing in and out. And there is a variety of different chemistry that can take place. You can have the gas that is not outer atmosphere coalesce into dust molecules because it’s so cold. You can have clouds of material that was let out during past exhalations pass in front of you as it goes on an orbit round and round. And then you just have the it’s varying in a very unstable way as it collapses and expands in in essentially a driven oscillation. And none of this is graceful. It’s it’s kind of like an elephant attempting to walk on a tightrope. It’s just going to wobble, wobble a whole lot in the process and occasionally spray you with stuff that you weren’t expecting for it.
Fraser Cane [00:16:32] Like an elephant like that. So, I mean, we had this this interesting experience with Beetlejuice a couple of years ago where the star dimmed in the sky. And normally it’s sort of the 10th brightest star in the sky, but it dimmed down pretty significantly. And, you know, you think, okay, well, we know why that happened. Right. And astronomers to be like now we have no idea. We have no idea why this has happened. We know it’s a variable star, but it hasn’t varied it to this degree. What could be the cause? And a lot of people are like, this means it’s can explode as a supernova. Well, probably no, we don’t know. You know, there’s a there’s a very remote chance that it could actually explode as a supernova. And just like that, we’re down to maybe there was a big sunspot and maybe there was a dust cloud.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:17:18] Yeah. Yeah, right. But we don’t know which.
Fraser Cane [00:17:21] And you know which, if you like, How do we not know?
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:17:27] And what’s so frustrating is this is the kind of thing where eventually we will be able to have optical interferometers with sufficient baseline to look at stars as large and as close as Beetlejuice and say, yes, that was a sunspot. But we’re just not quite there. And the data is on the edge of being able to show us. We can sort of see patches of light and dark on the surface of Beetlejuice. It’s a few units of resolution across. But right now, we’re just not there. And so we can’t differentiate between dust and sunspots. And yeah.
Fraser Cane [00:18:13] There was a really interesting mission that I was reporting on where they were proposing that you would take a tiny two tiny telescopes to the moon as part of one of these upcoming NASA’s commercial lunar packages, and one would be installed on the lander. And it would just be like a like a four centimeter. Five centimeter. Lens. Like it.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:18:38] All.
Fraser Cane [00:18:38] It takes like a little telescope. And then you have the other one on a rover, and it would drive about 100m away. And then the two telescopes would look at Beetlejuice together and you would have an interferometer that was 100 meter telescope on the surface of the moon now in.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:18:54] One direction across Beetlejuice.
Fraser Cane [00:18:56] It wouldn’t let you see. Yeah, exactly. It wouldn’t let you see much because you could only look at bright objects, but it would be bright enough to look at the biggest, brightest stars and actually resolve surface features on these these stars. And so we could actually get to this place. But again, it’s really kind of amazing that the stars are there, just like Beetlejuice is a hundred times bigger than the sun. And yet we can just barely resolve features on the surface and trying to understand, you know, what’s going on with these stars is incredibly complicated. All right. We can take another break.
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Fraser Cane [00:21:01] And we’re back. All right. So. So as an astronomer, as an observing astronomer, trying to work with our stars, your bread and butter, and yet they hide so much about themselves from you, what kinds of things are surprisingly difficult to observe about stars? We talked about, you know, trying to recognize these patterns, but just like stars themselves.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:21:25] So just trying to understand how the internal dynamics of stars evolve over time can get super frustrating. This is a problem. It was the very first problem that I tried to work on as an undergraduate. On the observation side was looking at changes in the periodicity of first suffered variable stars in the field and then doing an archival search of data on our Lorri pulsating variable stars in globular clusters. And we had decades of data on those are laris. We could see them smoothly and gradually changing in in how long it takes them to go from maximum to maximum or minimum to minimum. Pick your pick your point of measurement over those decades. But periodically they’d be like, No, I shall switch modes. I shall go from pulsating in the fundamental mode to being in the first overtone. It’s kind of like when you blow into a Coke bottle and you change how you’re blowing into it and the pitch jumps. The the way these stars were oscillating would essentially pitch jump from one mode to another. And when that happens, it’s like, Well, great, now I get to start over. And the measurements, sometimes they’ve spontaneously decide to just glitch. And we would blame things like, Well, there must have been a convective overshoot that took a blob of material from one part of the star and deposited it in a different area of the star, the radiative zone. And this changed in density. And that’s how it’s pulsating. And at a certain point you’re like, Yes, all of this mathematically makes sense. But we we can’t see inside the star and star. Why? Why can’t you just, like slowly and gradually evolve like we train our students who are doing Why must you write Burp?
Fraser Cane [00:23:32] Right. Which is a whole other separate conversation about things that stars do. Yes. And having gaps. But and you know, when I think back to our early conversations, one of the assumptions that you sort of tuned me up on was that we should be able to do you know, we should look at the composition of the stars and get a sense of what they’re made of and how old they are by just doing some variety of of checking the ratios of different. Yeah.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:24:04] Exactly.
Fraser Cane [00:24:05] Sam Yeah, but the problem is, is that these things sink down into the stars. They hide what they’re made out.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:24:12] Of, or it’s worse. They eat things off of a planet they’ve consumed. Sometimes they consume other stars. Blue Stragglers were tortured devices for graduate student.
Fraser Cane [00:24:24] Right. That’s a whole different conversation.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:24:26] In the second episode. Yeah. So the the first order concept is you should be able to look at a star’s atmosphere and say, This star is this age based on these long duration I radioactive elements that we’re able to see in the atmosphere. But but then sometimes just the mixing isn’t what one would wish for or the star got hungry and we can’t know which.
Fraser Cane [00:24:57] Right. Right. So the star has either absorbed those heavier elements down internally. It is is either mixed them inefficiently or it eat planets. And because, you know, some large percentage of stars there seem to have these heavier metals in their outer atmosphere. And it really is starting to look like they’ve been gobbling up high Jupiters.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:25:19] And and really, this is where we have to look at population dynamics. Any one star is going to be a lying liar. But if you look at a whole group of them, you can tease out the truth. And and this is why many of us deeply adore clusters And while really clusters. Nice. Because as near as we can tell, they don’t have planets, so they’re not going to be eating their planets. They’re just going to be eating each other.
Fraser Cane [00:25:46] Right. Right. And then, too, you mentioned the Blue Stragglers, and I think that’s important. Right. So you have these you normally in a globular cluster, you’re expecting the stars to be super old. And they’re all they’re mostly red. But there are a couple of stars that look brand new.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:26:05] And and it can be on the order of dozens per system or a few per system. And it appears to be places where either we used to say stellar collisions didn’t happen. It turns out we were wrong. So either via stellar collisions from stars just like flying at each other and having a bad day, or from binary star systems that evolved into one another, you end up with a system reigniting with new ready to go hydrogen in its core that allows it to return to earlier points in its evolution as a much more massive object.
Fraser Cane [00:26:48] And then another kind of story that we report on occasionally, Universe today is where astronomers will look at a star and they go, We thought this was a variable star, but it turns out it’s two stars. Yeah, right. And again, how did you not notice?
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:27:03] You know, if they’re if they are low enough brightness, we don’t see their lines or if it’s a white dwarf that just doesn’t have any lines. We may not notice that when we look at the spectra and ultimately with objects that are distant enough, we can tell it’s a binary not from the separation between the stars, but from how the lines change over time. You want it to be the kind of system where you have the very classic going along, going along deep, going along, going along, minor dip in brightness of the fainter star goes behind and the brightness goes down or the eye. Yeah, depending on which order it is, it either has a minor or deep depth.
Fraser Cane [00:28:01] The eclipsing binaries.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:28:02] Yeah, but you don’t always see that when the brightness difference. The luminosity difference is extreme between the two stars. You just right, miss the little one.
Fraser Cane [00:28:13] Yeah. So if you’ve got like two stars and they’re made of very similar constituents, which is what you’d expect if they formed in the same stellar nebula. Yeah. And they’re not perfectly lined up. They’re at a bit of an angle, which is again, what you would expect.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:28:26] The majority.
Fraser Cane [00:28:27] Of times. Like they wouldn’t be lined up. No, from from our perspective, only a fraction say 1% or some number of the stars are going to be directly in front of each other where they are passing in front of each other in this way that you get this really clear change in the brightness of the two stars. You’ve got these situations where they’re like a little bit tilted and you’re looking at them and they’re going around each other. And they’re made of kind of the same stuff. And they’re and they’re not blocking each other from our perspective. And so you just think it’s one star? Yeah. And it takes incredible technique to actually start to recognize. No, wait a minute. That’s two stars orbiting around each other at the distance of mercury or the distance of of Earth and the sun. And and it’s always amazing to me when you see these papers where someone goes, that’s not a star. That’s three stars, right?
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:29:17] Yeah. Yeah.
Fraser Cane [00:29:18] Right. Like, wait a minute. What? How do we not know that? And like, another thing is, like, this possible explanation for a second variability to Beetlejuice is that it actually is a stellar companion. And then that you’re seeing the combined light of the stellar companion that’s passing in front of and behind Beetlejuice from our perspective. And yet you can’t confirm, you can’t be sure that that’s exactly what it is because you just you can’t split the stars apart. We don’t have the resolution to be able to do that.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:29:49] And even if it isn’t the the stellar lines being enough to change, if they’re the same temperature, you can also run into issues because you would hope that if they were very different temperatures, you’d see these two different blackbody curves that peak and you just look for that double peak. But if they’re the same temperature objects, there’s so many reasons that you can’t separate out stars. And I think we’re going to be saying, that stars actually two stars for the rest of history.
Fraser Cane [00:30:23] Right. Yes. So, you know, good luck being an astronomer, if that’s what you’ve chosen. You’re going to depend on stars. And they are liars.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:30:32] Yep. And thanks very much. Break your heart, Paul. Thank you, Fraser. And thank you so much to all the folks out there who have been supporting us month after month or just for one month. We love you as specially sometimes, like the first month you’re here. You have my full attention and I adore you. And then we continue to love you across time. I’m babbling at this point while I open a file. Excuse me. What’s going on? Yeah. Yeah. Produce from the file. So this week, I would like to thank the following wonderful human beings that make this show possible. That allow us to pay Viva and Ali and Rich to keep everything going in the background. This. This week I’m thinking Alex Ray and Andrew Lester and Jasper Astro. Bob Astor sets. Benjamin Carrier. Benjamin Davies. Bob Crowell. Boogie Net. Brenda. Brian Kilby. Bruce Amazon. Szymanski. Claudia Mastrianni. Cody Rose. David. David. Russ Rossiter. Diane Philippon. Don Mons. Frodo. He gave me a new canonization guide.
Fraser Cane [00:31:45] Tenenbaum That’s when you. That’s what you said.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:31:48] Yeah, I’ve been saying it wrong. And he tried. And he tried again to help me understand how to say it. Accept it ain’t several of the characters because they’re in a foreign language. We adore you. I don’t know how to say your name. David. Yeah. Yeah. Caleb Sexton. Just McDonald called. Howell. McKinney. Hot Dogs. Trisha. Janelle. Jeremy Kerwin. Jim McGuinn. Jimmy Drake, Jordan Turner. Justin Proctor. Katie. And you. Lisa Christian. Mager Holt. I hope I said that right. Mark Schindler. Michael Purcell. Michael Regan. Nate That what? Detweiler Robert Handel. Robert Plasma. Ryan Emery. The Air. Major. Thomas Calzada. Tom Lord I Row. Will Hamilton, William Andrews. Thank you all so much. And I apologize for what I just did to your names. And if you would like me to also destroy your name very apologetically, please join our Patreon and along with my mispronunciations, you will also get ad free versions of our show, bonus content, updates on what’s going on and so much more. Thank you.
Fraser Cane [00:33:06] Thanks, everyone. And we will see you next week.
Dr. Pamela Gay [00:33:08] Bye bye, everyone. Astronomy cast is a joint product of Universe today and the Planetary Science Institute. Astronomy Cast is released under a Creative Commons attribution license. So love it. Sure it and remix it. But please credit it to our hosts, Fraser Cain and Dr. Pamela Gay. You can get more information on today’s show topic on our website, Astronomy Cars.com. This episode was brought to you. Thanks to our generous patrons on. If you want to help keep the show going. Please consider joining our community a Patriot Act. Com slash astronomy cast. Not only do you help us pay our producers a fair wage, you will also get special access to content right in your inbox and invites to online events. We are so grateful to all of you who have joined our Patreon community already. Anyways, keep looking up. This has been astronomy cast.
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