Just a few years ago LIGO detected the first direct evidence of gravitational waves coming from colliding black holes. And there you have it. Boom! Black holes collide! But that wasn’t all we learned from gravitational waves, nor will we learn. Sure, the masses of merging black holes are nice to know, but what else can we learn from gravitational black holes?
Show Notes
- Initial Discoveries and revisit to the groundbreaking detection of gravitational waves by LIGO
- Beyond black hole mergers including Neutron Star Mergers
- How gravitational wave detectors can observe other cosmic phenomena
- Multi-Messenger Astronomy
- Future Prospects including advanced detectors and space-based observatories
- Technical challenges in gravitational wave detection
Transcript
Frasier Cain [00:00:50] Astronomycast episode 743, what else can we learn from gravitational waves? Welcome to Astronomycast, a weekly facts -based journey through the cosmos, where we help you understand not only what we know, but how we know what we know. I’m Fraser Cain. I’m the publisher of Universe Today. With me as always is Dr. Pamela Gay, a senior scientist for the Planetary Sciences Institute and the director of CosmoQuest. Hey, Pamela, how are you doing?
Pamela Gay [00:01:11] I’m in the United States, so it’s probably a question that you don’t want me to answer. I’m also a soft money funded scientist, so that is definitely a question you don’t want me to answer.
Speaker 4 [00:01:21] Okay.
Frasier Cain [00:01:21] Well, as a Canadian, now about to go into a trade war with you, my Canadian, sorry, my US friend, yeah, things are likewise bad.
Pamela Gay [00:01:34] Yeah, yeah. The thing that has me most concerned is the rule of law apparently no longer has any meaning in this country. There are unvetted people without security clearances that now have access to the Social Security numbers and payment history of every US taxpayer. Yeah, yeah, these are kids that are going in and installing these servers and getting access and it’s just like, yeah.
Frasier Cain [00:02:15] Anyway, just a few years ago, LIGO detected the first direct evidence of gravitational waves coming from colliding black holes.
Speaker 3 [00:02:22] And there you have it.
Frasier Cain [00:02:23] Boom, black holes collide. But that wasn’t all we learned from gravitational waves, nor will we learn. We’ll get to it in a second, but it is time for a break.
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Frasier Cain [00:03:35] And we’re back. So before we get into what else can we learn about gravitational waves, can you give us like the short version of what we did learn about gravitational waves from colliding black holes?
Pamela Gay [00:03:48] So what we learned was they politely do exactly what they were supposed to do. And it’s really, really good when observation and theory match, especially when they match pretty much perfectly. So what we were eventually able to figure out, thanks to a suite of really long tunnels on the planet Earth that had mirrors and detectors and lasers that allowed us to consistently measure within a wavelength, the length of that tunnel, within a wavelength of optical light, the length of that tunnel, what we learned is as predicted when large gravitational waves pass over and through our planet, our planet will expand and squish, expand and squish and squish in a way that has a decaying frequency and amplitude that matches theory for what should happen as two masses come together and then collide.
Unidentified [00:04:55] Right.
Frasier Cain [00:04:57] So, you know, this was the prediction. I mean, it goes all the way back to Einstein when he did his theories of general relativity and said that masses moving through space time that experience, what is it, a quadrupole moment should generate gravitational waves and that, you know, you had the whole LIGO group come together to try to see whether they could actually demonstrate this. Now we knew that gravitational waves, like they had already been proven thanks to binary pulsars.
Speaker 4 [00:05:32] Right.
Pamela Gay [00:05:33] So, so what had earlier been figured out by Holst and Taylor was when you have pulsars orbiting around each other, these are two high mass objects that are not symmetric and as they go around, they are radiating energy. And because the radiating energy in the form of gravitational waves, their orbits are coming closer and closer together. The period of the orbit is changing. We can measure that extremely precisely thanks to changes in the pulsar timing as the objects move to and fro and the distances, those pulses have to travel change over the course of the orbit.
Speaker 3 [00:06:15] Right, right.
Frasier Cain [00:06:16] And they were actually able to measure that, that the pulsars as they’re going around each other, they are bleeding off that rotational, the kinetic energy into gravitational waves, that’s slowing down their, how quickly they’re going around each other and you’re actually measuring those pulsar timings and it all syncs up.
Pamela Gay [00:06:40] And they got a Nobel prize.
Frasier Cain [00:06:41] And they got a, yeah, Nobel prizes all around. But, but then, you know, when they were directly observed as opposed to indirectly just by the way that the orbits are changing, again, Nobel prizes all around. And so I guess what did we learn apart from, yes, gravitational waves are a thing, what did we learn from that original LIGO detection of, of gravitational waves?
Pamela Gay [00:07:07] Well, the one original detection was like, yay, merger. We did it. What we found from their, their population statistics is that group of intermediate mass black holes that we knew had to exist out there. And we hadn’t been able to, until recently to directly detect was finally detectable through the gravitational waves that were produced when they merged with other objects. We have also been able to see a neutron star mergers. And back in 2017, we had that, we’ve, I think, dedicated an entire episode to it, that, that event that we detected through the neutrinos, through the gravitational waves and through the light. And now we know the majority of gold comes from neutron star mergers.
Frasier Cain [00:08:00] So, so I get, you know, I was going to take that to the, as the next part in this journey, but no problem. You’re just going to speed run today’s episode, which is perfectly fine by me. I can keep up. And that is that, yeah, we got this, this confirmation that the, that the black holes mergers are actually happening. And then that taught us that, that yes, indeed as predicted black holes get closer and closer to each other as they bleed off this kinetic energy through the gravitational waves. And that in fact, neutron stars can do the same. And this is detectable by LIGO when you’ve got these gravitational waves and then you’ve got, you know, we got a confirmation that a certain class of gamma ray bursts correspond to that merger of neutron stars that we see the wreckage of this collision. We see gold, we see other heavier elements that tells us that this is the way they probably formed and not necessarily with, with core collapse supernova. So then we get another finding just a couple of years ago with the nanograv facility about through pulsar timing arrays, we get another detection of gravitational waves.
Pamela Gay [00:09:12] And here I want to separate very carefully two separate ideas. Individual pulsars should be sources of continuous gravitational waves. We do not have the technological ability to detect those right now.
Frasier Cain [00:09:28] Only if they’re unbalanced though.
Pamela Gay [00:09:31] Only if they’re asymmetric at some, some level. And we believe that they are asymmetric at some level. It doesn’t take a lot of asymmetry.
Frasier Cain [00:09:39] So it is wobble.
Speaker 4 [00:09:41] Yeah.
Pamela Gay [00:09:41] So pulsars are theorized to be a source of continuous gravitational waves. That’s not what we’re talking about right now. What you’re talking about right now is we can measure the distance to pulsars through a variety of different means, and as long as that distance stays constant, the arrival of those pulses will stay constant. And this is more precise in timing than your standard atomic clock. What the nanograv facility has been doing is monitoring the pulsations of myriad different pulsars, looking for changes in arrival time that corresponds to a gravitational wave sweeping through our galaxy and changing the distance to these pulsars. And as you look out across space, we can see three -dimensionally all these different pulsars. We understand from all of the data we have so far that gravity appears to propagate at the speed of light. Gravitational waves appear to propagate at the speed of light. And we can, if we estimate the distance to this pulsar, we estimate to one back there, we look long enough and we haven’t been able to do this yet. We’ll be able to see pulsar delay here, pulsar delay there. That’s a wave moving through space. What we’re instead seeing is over here, there seems to be differences. We’re seeing a myriad of different delays that statistically appear to There are gravitational waves regularly sweeping through our galaxy.
Frasier Cain [00:11:32] And a class of gravitational waves that we’re not able to detect directly, which are the results of the merges of supermassive black holes.
Pamela Gay [00:11:40] And this is where it gets so cool to imagine all the different things we’re going to be able to detect someday. And I don’t know if you want to get to that right now, but nanograv is probing massive objects merging, LIGO is, is observing intermediate mass down to neutron star mass objects merging each different mass of black hole as it merges a neutron star as it merges produces a different frequency and amplitude of gravitational waves. And we can get at the distance of these events through the amplitude we observe and, and the frequency tells us what was happening.
Speaker 4 [00:12:29] Right.
Frasier Cain [00:12:31] So what’s interesting as well is, is Meerkat, which is this incredible South African radio telescope array recently confirmed the existence of this background gravitational wave to the universe in a fraction of the time that the original nanograph was able to do. And so you’ve got this independent confirmation, you know, more telescopes better, more, they looked at more pulsars for a shorter period of time and got the confirmation. So, so I think that’s where we stand today in, in what we have learned from gravitational waves so far. And so now we’re going to move on in a second and talk about what we can learn, but it is time for another break.
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Frasier Cain [00:14:15] And we’re back.
Speaker 3 [00:14:17] All right.
Frasier Cain [00:14:17] So I think we’ve got a good sense of what we’ve learned so far about gravitational waves. And so now let’s look into the future, which is, I guess, what are the kinds of questions that we think that gravitational waves can give us some kind of answer and then how can we detect them?
Pamela Gay [00:14:37] It’s not always what kind of questions can be answered so much as what parts of the universe can be probed. And one of the things you and I have talked about since day zero of, of doing astronomy cast is we cannot observe with light earlier than the release of the cosmic microwave background, but gravity doesn’t have that same issue. And in general, it’s not like we can go out and probe the gravity field of before the cosmic microwave background, the way we can probe the gravity field of a world and map out its sides. There’s no fly by of the big bang that any NASA probe’s ever going to do. But what we can do instead is look for the gravitational waves that are radiating from all directions from that early universe. And this could be part of this background of stochastic gravitational waves that we believe is out there. Now, the problem is there are a whole lot of different things that can produce gravitational waves. All it takes is an asymmetric object rotating and you’re going to start to get gravitational waves. A planet like Mars with a big old volcano on it is going to have gravitational waves, just not ones we can detect.
Frasier Cain [00:16:06] When you drive down the road, you are generating gravitational waves.
Speaker 4 [00:16:10] Yeah.
Pamela Gay [00:16:10] And, and so all these different things add up. And, and so we talk about there being the individual gravitational waves that we get from merger events that we get from supernovae explosions, unless there is somehow this miraculously, perfectly symmetric supernovae. And, okay, I don’t know how that happens, but we’ll go with that. Anything rotating that isn’t perfectly symmetric is going to radiate gravitational waves continuously. So you have things that explode and merge do a burst of gravitational waves that we see. You have things that are rotating and are asymmetric that are giving off continuous gravitational waves. And there’s this random distribution we believe of gravitational waves that we may not ever be able to figure out what is. This is the stochastic gravitational waves in the background. And some of those are probably going to come from pre CMB, pre cosmic microwave background formation physics. Now, well, there’s going to be stuff we can never figure out. There’s going to also be stuff we do figure out. And this may be the one and only way we can ever get information from before the cosmic microwave background, other than by happening to see things that are fossilized in the cosmic microwave background. And we’re only going to get so far with that as well. So it’s, it’s cool to think we still have this one pathway to understanding the early universe.
Frasier Cain [00:17:56] And what will be the sources of that gravitational wave? I mean, the term is primordial gravitational waves and, and as opposed to the background gravitational waves, they’re coming from the colliding supermassive black holes and us driving our cars down the road and so on, but there’s going to be this class of gravitational waves that will be visible, that would have been generated within that first 380 ,000 years after the big bang and in theory, right from the very beginning, right from, you know, if inflation happened, hopefully there’ll be evidence of, of that, those gravitational waves in, in, you know, coming from that inflation event, but even if there are, I mean, would there be like large masses merging and colliding early on in the universe? Like what would be that source of those first gravitational waves?
Pamela Gay [00:18:43] So there were the very own acoustic waves traveling through the early material that made up our universe, that was creating a variety of overdensities and under densities in this essentially fluid that was the early universe. And so you didn’t so much have discrete objects that were merging in, in the early universe, but you did have changes in the mass distribution over time. And there’s other things that people worry about as well. Echoes essentially from colliding black holes and neutron stars that, that are out there today could be hiding stuff that I have to admit, I don’t fully understand a lot of the papers. I do know that we both chased the, the, uh, there was, what was it?
Speaker 4 [00:19:44] 2014.
Pamela Gay [00:19:45] Oh, the bicep two, the bicep two, where they thought they were able to detect the, the effects of gravitational waves in the data they were looking at, and they didn’t. And so we should be able to see in the cosmic microwave background, depending on what’s going on, a, a essentially bunching up of material changes and how the light is being radiated. And so far we haven’t been able to find that. So that leaves the next question of, can we find these ripples from how the material was clumped up and not clumped up in the early universe? Can we find the gravitational waves from that directly? And, and that’s the next thing that we’re hoping for.
Frasier Cain [00:20:38] And I think that, you know, people are aware of the upcoming European space agencies, Lisa mission, the laser interferometer space antenna, and that’s going to be three spacecraft flying in formation, firing lasers back
Speaker 3 [00:20:50] and forth.
Frasier Cain [00:20:50] And then as gravitational waves sweep past, they will change the length of the arms and they’re like tens of thousands of kilometers long. And so it will change those and they will get direct evidence of those supermassive black holes merging. That’s the hope, but people have proposed versions of Lisa that have like maybe 12 spacecraft that maybe have longer arms and this is called the big bang explorer. And in theory, that that’s what gets you to those, those first gravitational waves, the ones, the echoes of the big bang itself. And hopefully that is, you know, is something that we will eventually see maybe in our, in our lifetimes. All right, we’re going to continue on this conversation, but it’s time for another break.
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Frasier Cain [00:22:39] All right. So we’ve talked about the, the potential for primordial gravitational waves to give us a look into the time before the microwave background radiation. What else can we learn from gravitational waves?
Pamela Gay [00:22:55] Oh man. So this is a conversation that Paul Matt Sutter is really the one. I’m just going to say any of you have the chance to ever talk to Paul Matt Sutter. He is the expert on this.
Frasier Cain [00:23:06] This is watch his videos.
Speaker 3 [00:23:07] Yeah.
Speaker 4 [00:23:07] Or watch his podcast.
Pamela Gay [00:23:08] Yeah. The dance videos, maybe not so much, but the podcasts for sure. Um, one of the things he talks about is how the early universe could have actually in essence fractured and, and these changes in the mass that look like fractures, if you were to try and draw them out, artistically could generate gravitational waves. He talks about how as the different forces split off from one another where first there was gravity and then there was the strong and the electromagnetic and weak. So strong went off and then the electroweak and the electromagnetic split apart. And as each of these things happened, the reality of our universe, and this is all happening in fractions of the first second, all of this could have potentially left a pattern through gravitational waves on the early universe. I don’t know how we detect that.
Speaker 4 [00:24:12] I, I,
Frasier Cain [00:24:13] but in theory it’s going to be giving off gravitational waves.
Pamela Gay [00:24:15] Yeah, yeah. And so we’re at this point where things that I was always like, cool theory, dude, love it. We’ll teach it. Can’t observe it. I’m good with it though. We might actually be able to observe because there are people smarter than I am and more creative than I am. And I’m very grateful. Those people exist.
Speaker 3 [00:24:37] Yeah.
Frasier Cain [00:24:39] Um, okay.
Speaker 3 [00:24:41] What else?
Frasier Cain [00:24:42] I’ll give you, this was your title. So what else can we learn from gravitational waves?
Pamela Gay [00:24:47] I, I got this idea from you.
Speaker 3 [00:24:50] Um, okay. Wait, what?
Frasier Cain [00:24:52] That was the title that couldn’t have been the title.
Speaker 3 [00:24:54] I keep you. All right.
Frasier Cain [00:24:55] Well, I’ll give you a couple more then.
Speaker 3 [00:24:56] Fine.
Frasier Cain [00:24:56] Uh, so one of the other ideas is that you had, um, cosmic strings that, that, you know, if they’re, you know, one of the theories about the sort of underlying nature of matter is that, that it’s made of these wiggly, jiggly strings.
Pamela Gay [00:25:11] And that theory, I’m so much of a proponent.
Frasier Cain [00:25:15] But if, and, and you can’t direct them directly, but if, uh, that theory is correct, then, then those, what would have been tiny strings at the beginning of the universe would have sort of accreted more material, grown larger and could be potentially light years across and these giant cosmic strings moving through the universe, colliding, um, and causing gravitational waves. And so one of the possible things that you could detect with gravitational wave observatories is, is colliding.
Pamela Gay [00:25:48] Um, and over time we’re getting more and more evidence that those suckers don’t exist.
Frasier Cain [00:25:52] Just, just to be clear, because you would see them with gravitational lensing as well. And these large scale surveys haven’t turned that up. So, uh, the other thing that I like is that we could use them to find aliens flying through space in their warp drives. That’s right. And so in theory, a spacecraft as it is, you know, as when the, when the enterprise goes from star to star, it’s going to be using the warp drive. And that’s going to be going to be shifting space time. It’s going to be bending space time to its will to be able to make this spacecraft go. And then in theory, that’s going to cause a wake, a gravitational wave wake, um, which is pretty cool. And so, but the sort of the coolest idea about this, and this was like a paper that just came out fairly recently was people were saying, Oh, we won’t necessarily be able to detect the wakes. That’s like, there’s not enough going on there. Um, but what we will be able to detect is the detonation, the catastrophic failure of the warp drives in these, uh, spacecraft. And so you’ll have the spacecraft is going, the warp drive collapses, destroys the spacecraft, sends out ripples of gravitational waves. And that might be just within reach of what we could do with, with gravitational waves, which I think is, uh, is fantastic. So, uh, you know, you’re wondering, and then the sort of last thing that’s on my sort of mental list right now is that we could potentially use gravitational waves as a communications tool. So, you know, this is beyond our capability today, obviously, but gravitational waves pass nicely through almost anything. They’ll pass through through planets. They’ll pass through stars.
Pamela Gay [00:27:40] What don’t they pass through nicely?
Speaker 3 [00:27:42] Uh, black holes. Yeah.
Pamela Gay [00:27:44] I mean, they pass through them.
Speaker 3 [00:27:47] So they’ll pass, they’ll pass. Yeah.
Frasier Cain [00:27:49] They’ll pass around them.
Pamela Gay [00:27:50] Yeah.
Frasier Cain [00:27:51] Um, right. That a, that like when a gravitational wave passes a black hole, it will, any part of the gravitational wave that directly falls within the event horizon of the black hole gets added to the black hole. You convert the mass energy of the gravitational wave and you end up with, uh, additional mass in the black hole, but, but anything that, you know, but otherwise they get distorted. They get twisted as they go near the black hole. But in theory, if you could move a mass in a certain way, you could generate gravitational waves. You could modulate the gravitational waves. And if you have a detection system that is good enough, you could theoretically detect it. And it might very well be that, that some future advanced civilization could use these gravitational waves as a way to communicate. And in fact, that might be the best way to communicate. And so the reason we don’t see any evidence of aliens out there is because they’re all using gravitational waves to communicate with each other in some way that we haven’t figured out yet. So, um, so there’s a lot of like cool science fiction ideas on what you could use gravitational ways for.
Pamela Gay [00:28:55] What I love about doing the show is I don’t generally keep up to date on all of the theoretical technology research going on, which is not my thing. Totally your thing. And, and so over the years, the show has totally become a collaboration because of all the interviews you’ve done with folks with NIAC funding, folks who are thinking out of the box with the technology for communications and thrust and everything else. Cause I would never have come up with those in any of the research that I was doing. I sort of hit the, uh, here are some papers. I don’t fully understand on primordial, uh, primordial gravitational waves.
Frasier Cain [00:29:39] So that’s the other thing is searching, potentially finding primordial gravitational waves, sorry, primordial black holes. So that there is a minimum size of black hole that should be created naturally through the collapse of a massive star and that then if we detect the mergers of any black holes that are not mergers between neutron stars that are lower than the mass of that minimum mass level, then that immediately confirms the existence of these primordial black holes. Uh, one of the things that we haven’t seen so far is mergers between white dwarfs and neutron stars or white dwarfs.
Pamela Gay [00:30:20] And the frequency is wrong.
Frasier Cain [00:30:21] Well, but Lisa isn’t your tool. Lisa is the one that gets us the colliding supermass of black holes. There’s an extension to LIGO call. So there’s a couple of extensions to LIGO and a new thing called the Einstein telescope. And that will have, so right now LIGO has arms that are a few 10 kilometers, 15, I forget the length of the arms on like that.
Speaker 3 [00:30:46] Yeah.
Frasier Cain [00:30:46] But, but the Einstein telescope will be 40. And so it’ll be like the largest feasible gravitational wave observatory that you can put on earth. And what’s nice is that it just blends in with the rest of the existing, uh, community. So, um,
Pamela Gay [00:31:01] did they change Lisa? Cause Lisa was originally billed as the white dwarf merger detector.
Frasier Cain [00:31:08] I, I don’t, I don’t think so. I mean, maybe Lisa will also be able to do white dwarfs, but it’s the, it’s the longer, slower mergers that they’re going to go after. It’s these longer baseline ground observatories, but like, like the gravitational wave observatories are kind of like telescopes. You tune them to specific frequencies and then that’s what you’re
Speaker 3 [00:31:28] looking for.
Frasier Cain [00:31:29] But, but yeah. So in theory, we will get these confirmations that white dwarfs collide with, with black holes, that white dwarfs collide with
Pamela Gay [00:31:35] neutral.
Frasier Cain [00:31:35] Like obviously this is happening, but that’ll tell us which of the kinds of explosions that we see in the universe are matched with these kinds of mergers. So, uh, so it’s a lot of things, but as soon as you move mass, then you get to observe the gravitational ways of that
Speaker 3 [00:31:51] thing.
Frasier Cain [00:31:51] So, all right. We’ve reached the end of our show. Thank you, Pamela.
Pamela Gay [00:31:55] Thank you, Fraser. And thank you everyone who is watching this video and apologies. I do not know why my camera decided it needed to, uh, completely lose its mind for a moment, but that is what it did. I mean, I understand. I think I’ve completely lost my mind for a moment, a few times over the weekend. Um, this week we would really like to thank, uh, some of our $10 or not patrons, uh, this week we would like to thank Alex Rayne, Andrew, Palestra, uh, Antasor, Astro Bob, Astro Sets, Benjamin Carrier, Benjamin Davies, Bill Smith, Bob Krell, Boogie Net, Brenda, Brian Kilby, Bruce Amazines, Manski, Claudia Mastriani, Cody Rose, David, David Rosetta, uh, Diane Philippon, Don Mundus, Frodo Tanenbe, I think I said that time, uh, Jeff, uh, McDonald Gold, Hal McKinney, Janelle, Jeremy Kerwin, Jim McGeehan, Jimmy Drake, Jordan Turner, Justin Proctor, Katie and Ulyssa, uh, Christian Magersholt, uh, Mark Schneider, Michael Purcell, Michael Regan, Nate Detweiler, Papa Hotdog, Rando, Robert Hundle, Robert Palasma, Ryan Amory, the Air Major, Thomas Gazetta, Timelord Irowe, Will Hamilton, William Andrews. Thank you all so very much. You make this show possible.
Frasier Cain [00:33:29] Thanks everyone. And we will see you next week.
Speaker 4 [00:33:31] Bye bye.
Pamela Gay [00:33:38] Astronomycast is a joint product of Universe Today and the Planetary Science Institute. Astronomycast is released under a Creative Commons Attribution License. So love it, share it, and remix it. But please credit it to our hosts, Fraser Cain and Dr. Pamela Gay. You can get more information on today’s show topic on our website, astronomycast .com. This episode was brought to you thanks to our generous patrons on Patreon. If you want to help keep this show going, please consider joining our community at patreon .com slash astronomycast. Not only do you help us pay our producers a fair wage, you will also get special access to content right in your inbox and invites to online events. We are so grateful to all of you who have joined our Patreon community already. Anyways, keep looking up. This has been Astronomycast.
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